Curse

Div · Aug 07, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

After looking up on Critical Agility, I think I have a reason to now start an assassin of my own. Last time I had an assassin was long before Nightfall and Heroes. It was usually easy enough to survive but I had to know when to pull out. Now with CA, I feel it will be a lot more fun and unlocks potential to new build experiments.

I've always wanted to make an assassin for the longest time, and I thought CA was the answer to my concerns...but after looking up on Shatter Enchantment, I'm not as excited to make an assassin anymore...

CA really needs to be a skill or stance :P

Snow Bunny · Aug 07, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Well.....I suppose the problem is that you run into "Good" players once in a blue moon...so when a potentially weak slot like Derv/Rit/Para/Sin has a mediocre-bad player behind it, why bother?

Bad Nuker > Bad Assassin.

I suppose that's the reason for the bias. Honestly...I'll take a paragon...provided his bar isn't garbage, and I'll take a rit, because rits are just plain useful. But I cannot for the life of me remember when I pugged with an assassin and did not regret filling the spot with something else. And a lot of dervs out there don't understand how to use them =/

There's no reason for tanks anymore, at least in non elite-mission pve; minion masters fulfill that role pretty easily.

Gregslot · Aug 07, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Well... no point of arguing how angels make sex.
We will have to wait and see.
I just hope i dont see another DoA thing in my life. I havent tryed it with the "new" changes but as far as i know it is ridiculously hard for balanced players at a point you cant even possibly think about the possibility of using heroes. And seriously, i refuse to use the "agrro, tank and nuke" tatic.

The problem at the rest of the elite areas are the players. Some players are too narrow-minded, you can easly use any other class at the other Elite Mission but you dont because some people suck at it and the people who say you HAVE to run build X,Y or Z are mentaly retarded.
Woot, i never felt so good offending people before =)

Anyways, i just hope none of these dungeons are DoA dungeons

GloryFox · Aug 07, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Gregslot you are the kind of player I like to hang with in game. I also hate the Aggro Tank then Nuke mentality. I've been there done that, I feel competent enough to look for other build options and make them work, or at least try it and see what happens. The funnest mission Ive ever done in GW within the last 2 years was with a guild were we did an 8 man assassin team for Thunder Head Keep. What a blast that was! Looking outside of the box for team builds is what makes this game loads of fun. Try grabbing an Assassin instead of a Warrior, or a Restoration Rit instead of a Healer, A Mesmer instead of an Elementalist. You might be surprised and change your opinions on what constitutes a good PvE game.

kazjun · Aug 08, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

If all you think a warrior is good for is tanking, then you don't know as much about warriors as you think.

As for needing certain classes for dungeons? I doubt it. Unless its set to be undoable by a normal player with heroe's and henchies, you won't see cookie cutter party builds unless there's something good to farm. If there's something good to farm, then of course people will look for the easiest, quickest and most efficient way to farm, and you'll get wanted builds. Otherwise, no way. I reckon most of the dungeons are just a passage linking say the norn areas to the asura areas etc. Just another zone to travel through to get to other areas of the map. And has anyone ever seen someone say, "oh noes, we can't get through the domain of pain without X", or "we can't get across Morostav trail without X and Y"? As long as a group has one or two healers then I don't see any other requirements.

Gregslot · Aug 08, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Just for the record, my main character is a Mesmer and i also have a Ritualist and an Assassin. So i know they work because i have to make them work. I have played urgoz with my assassin and have played the deep with my mesmer. So i proved to myself and the other 11 players that i am right and the rest are wrong.

NOW BACK TO THE TOPIC.
Like i said, there is not point to argue, try to imagine or brainstorm about how it is going to be or what we want it to be.
It is going to be what it is going to be and we do not know, we will know when it comes so there is no point of suffering before the time comes

Now go outside and breathe some fresh air, some of you really need it

Thargor · Aug 08, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

I think you over analyzed my post. So I will try and clarify some things....

Seems that I took your post rather literally. Thanks for the clarification and sorry if there was any offense caused from my post.

Cebe · Aug 08, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I've always wanted to make an assassin for the longest time, and I thought CA was the answer to my concerns...but after looking up on Shatter Enchantment, I'm not as excited to make an assassin anymore...

CA really needs to be a skill or stance :P

By that reasoning Elemental Attunement, Boon of Creation, Healer's Boon etc.. etc.. should be stances also!

If people didn't make professions because they were worried enchantments might get stripped GW would be full of wammos...no wait...they use mending. Full of Paragons!

Personally I get the feeling the dungeons will be no more than "extended missions"...meaning the "unfavoured" classes wont be wanted more or less than they really are now, unless there are situations in the dungeons which really do require something only a mesmer, assassin, paragon... can give.

Spyke103 · Aug 08, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32

I don't remember reading anywhere that eotn or the dungeons were called elite missions and if so that's news 2 me.

blue.rellik · Aug 08, 2007, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

2) I will take almost anyone over a Warrior unless I know the player. I have a Warrior, Ive had him for over 2 years. I have all Warrior skills for him, I have 15k armor and 5 Helms for various builds. In truth I know the class extremely well. However the Warrior of 2 years ago and the Warriors of today are two different breeds. After the armor stacking nerf a Warrior has become no better at holding aggro than an Assassin or Dervish. The Assassin has the unique advantage of a far better DPS. Whereas the Dervish has the unique advantage of better self health management and AOE DPS. When faced with a choice between an Assassin and a Dervish, unless that Assassin can show he can manage his armor and damage mitigation well, I'll take a Dervish. Thus when faced with a choice of a Warrior and an Assassin only. If that Assassin has the Critical Agility skill at Sunspear rank 10 I'll pick him over the Warrior. I hope that clarifies my reasons for choices.

Could you enlighten how a Sin can have superior DPS to a warrior? I was always under the assumption that Wars were king of DPS?

This is honest question, not an attack.

White knight lord · Aug 08, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Sins have two weapons.

They also have a quicker attack time with their daggers then a warrior with a sword,axe and definately a Hammer...I like Warriors over Sins personally especially playing a Hammer warrior.

White knight lord · Aug 08, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

By that reasoning Elemental Attunement, Boon of Creation, Healer's Boon etc.. etc.. should be stances also!

Man that would be way easier

Mordakai · Aug 08, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I've always wanted to make an assassin for the longest time, and I thought CA was the answer to my concerns...but after looking up on Shatter Enchantment, I'm not as excited to make an assassin anymore...

CA really needs to be a skill or stance :P

I thought Critical Agility was a skill...

is guildwiki wrong? http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Critical_Agility

Skill. For 4 seconds and 1 second for each rank of Critical Strikes you attack 33% faster and gain 10...22...25 armor. This Skill reapplies itself every time you land a critical hit.

AlienFromBeyond · Aug 08, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I thought Critical Agility was a skill...

is guildwiki wrong? http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Critical_Agility

Skill. For 4 seconds and 1 second for each rank of Critical Strikes you attack 33% faster and gain 10...22...25 armor. This Skill reapplies itself every time you land a critical hit.

That's the official guild wars wiki, which isn't as good as guildwiki. On it, you can clearly see that Critical Agility is an enchantment.

Snow Bunny · Aug 08, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Could you enlighten how a Sin can have superior DPS to a warrior? I was always under the assumption that Wars were king of DPS?

This is honest question, not an attack.

If we're speaking of melee...

the assassin will hit quicker and spread nasty conditions faster, hence why the boa worked so well. Further most of its damage is armor ignoring. The DPS isn't good though.

The warrior should be used to spike harder. It can because of Eviscerate. Its DPS will lose out to a derv.

The dervish will beat either with DPS; however, watch what happens when a Reaper's Sweep goes critical in your face. Not a pleasant thing, can be a nasty spike if done correctly.

Mordakai · Aug 08, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond

That's the official guild wars wiki, which isn't as good as guildwiki. On it, you can clearly see that Critical Agility is an enchantment.

Good to know.

Won't be using that site anymore, except for update notices.

DokkyDok · Aug 08, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

So, GloryFox goes and states that he wouldn't pick up a warrior, but then tries to give us a reason to pick up an assassin.

It's great you're standing up for an underused profession, but don't say the warrior is useless because of the armor cap...Other than "Watch Yourself!" what armor buff would a warrior be applying?...

blue.rellik · Aug 09, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

If we're speaking of melee...

the assassin will hit quicker and spread nasty conditions faster, hence why the boa worked so well. Further most of its damage is armor ignoring. The DPS isn't good though.

The warrior should be used to spike harder. It can because of Eviscerate. Its DPS will lose out to a derv.

The dervish will beat either with DPS; however, watch what happens when a Reaper's Sweep goes critical in your face. Not a pleasant thing, can be a nasty spike if done correctly.

I can see how Dervishes are better at DPS (since of scythes huge crit range and all attack skills adding +damage) though I wonder how it matches against a DSlash war (the best a war can get in terms of DPS)

Cebe · Aug 09, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I thought Critical Agility was a skill...

is guildwiki wrong? http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Critical_Agility

Skill. For 4 seconds and 1 second for each rank of Critical Strikes you attack 33% faster and gain 10...22...25 armor. This Skill reapplies itself every time you land a critical hit.

That's the official guild wars wiki, which isn't as good as guildwiki. On it, you can clearly see that Critical Agility is an enchantment.

Not to mention when you use it it's icon appears with a green outline showing it is an enchantment...and that you lose it whenever you run into a mob of Kournans when they use Strip Enchantment!

There are skills and there are skills. A skill is any skill in Guild Wars, be it an attack, enchantment, spell, chant etc... but a skill can also be a skill...[wiki]Ritual Lord[/wiki] and [wiki]Critical Eye[/wiki] are examples of such...it's not a stance or enchantment, it's just a "skill". It can't be stripped or removed unless you die. If that makes even remote sense!

"skill" can be a general term, or it can be a "skill-type".